Zoids Wiki:Archives/Forum:Adoption
As some of you may already know Zane T 69 and I are planning on adopting this wiki in order to have it in a more organized state and keeping it free from vandals and preventing them from vandalizing it for days without administrative intervention, due to its other admins being inactive. If you want to support the adoption or object it, this page is the place to do it. Moviejunkie2009 (talk) 00:47, February 24, 2019 (UTC) :As one of the admins, I object to this. Sylvanelite (talk) 09:08, February 26, 2019 (UTC) As is your right, but you were gone for months and during that time thousands of pages could have been defaced; and with templates being targeted they very well could have. This happened once before and an anon started saying that Zoids use Karate and inserted false information. You just aren't able to do the job alone anymore and that's been proven. You need help. That's not an insult or you being belittled; you're one user and not only can no one expect you to do it all, it simply isn't practical or feasible. Zane T 69 (talk) 16:59, February 26, 2019 (UTC) :You act like I wasn't here for months, that is false. During the last few months, the longest I've gone without visiting the wiki is a week. Even if I'm not making edits, I'm still reviewing changes. Sylvanelite (talk) 22:18, February 26, 2019 (UTC) I can't see when you log in and I only had your contributions to go by. But I talked with Wikia/Fandom and the adoption is still viable. I'm too contact them tomorrow to complete it. Zane T 69 (talk) 22:42, February 26, 2019 (UTC) :My biggest concern is this: You have an objection, but rather than ask why an objection is being made, you're ignoring it and pressing ahead regardless. I think that's extremely concerning. Sylvanelite (talk) 01:19, February 27, 2019 (UTC) You didn't offer a reason for your objection, but what is your reason? Not every person has a reason and when they do they usually state it with their objection. Otherwise it leaves people to deduce your reason for objection. I assumed it was because you were back now and felt threatened/offended/angered by it. When you don't state why you object to something you leave people to mentally fill in the blanks for themselves. Your concern is unfounded. I assumed that you no longer deemed it necessary and were going through a proper channel to officially cancel it by opposing it on the forum. I wasn't maliciously trying to gain power. If I were I would aim for a bigger wiki. I began the adoption process because I believed that I could better the wiki and help it grow and become more popular, be better defended, and that I could leave the wiki a better place for the next users who came to it. As stated on Community Central I also lack confidence in you due to what's happened on your watch. Zane T 69 (talk) 01:51, February 27, 2019 (UTC) :I objected as a litmus test. To see how you would react. I was playing the devil's advocate. I actually had no objections at the time of writing, but I wanted to see what you would say, but now I have serious concerns. You basically had 3 options: * Ask me for why I objected * Delay your request until things calm down a bit * Ignore people who disagree with you and proceed anyway :You chose option 3. You're only asking my opinion now, after I raised it. And that is concerning. An admin needs to be able to listen to the opinions of users, not just wield power as a big stick. :What I wanted from you was any of the following: * What you wanted to use higher roles for, aside from banning people * What content is currently lacking from the wiki, and how you would source it :Instead what you've done is the worst possible option. You've shown a willingness to ignore people who disagree with you, and you've offered no clear plan on how you plan to keep the Wiki up to date with the current Zoids news. :If I had gone through and edited a single space on my profile weekly, would you still have the same issues? I can do that, but it's utterly pointless to do so. It's just edits for the sake of edits. And in that sense, your account is not free from criticism. The vast, vast, majority of your edits are to categories. This is low hanging fruit to get edit counts up. If you wanted to convince me you are admin material, you needed to either show willingness to compromise, or show substantial knowledge of Zoids. You've shown neither. :In the meantime, my lack of edits stemmed from an attempt to find citations. Trying to figure out things like, What's Gyoza's sister's name, or Tomato's siblings, is hard work. I've gone and supplied updates, but I know there are errors that will need correcting later. Unless you can correct these errors, it'll fall back on me to do it later. And if you can't correct basic errors, what value are you offering to the wiki? You've proposed nothing that requires admin powers, and have been less active than me over the same timeframe, in terms of actual content. :If you want to show leadership material, I would suggest delaying your request for ownership. I recommend redirecting your efforts to updating content, instead of categories, and if you can do that for an extended period, then looking at resuming your request. That is my compromise. I understand that you don't have to consider it, but I'm offering you a direct route to power. Ignoring it and going above my head would be showing that you are hypocritically power hungry. :Note, that I'm in no position either way. If I could go and retroactively make edits, I would. But I didn't, so that's history. Feeling "threatened" or whatever you want to make up, has no part in any of this, the fact that you're restoring to ad-homeinums like that is kind of funny, I haven't seen weak reasoning like that in years. This place actually used to be very good at logical debates, believe it or not. :Anyway, that's my 2c. You don't have to listen to me, but if your character is as good as you say, then you would take these comments on board. Sylvanelite (talk) 02:49, February 27, 2019 (UTC) It's a reasonable expectation for people to state why they object. Otherwise it's just left up to the reader to guess. In fact this is quite essential for debates. Mind games and supposed tests are not helpful. Most children can understand that you need a better reason than "just because" and state their reasoning. You've been dismissing valid concerns brought up to you. My goal is to defend the wiki without banning them; clear and concise rules and policies, and reasonable warnings being but a few things. If you put a notice on your user page then I would have understood and wouldn't have pursued adoption. Any thing could have happened to you in the course of three months; death, coma, imprisonment, loss of log-in information, or simply deciding that it was time to move on. Nobody knew what you were doing or if you were even alive. All you had to say was that you would be inactive but would check-in while finding citations for information and boom, done, problem solved, and we know that you're around but doing something important. As for the Japanese translations I would check multiple sources and their citations and check for correlation between the translations. It's a far from perfect solution, but barring the learning of a new language and possibly screwing up the wiki due to my own experience it's all I've got. You're right. Most of my edits are in categories. Wait.... Someone vandalized hundreds of pages on your watch and someone had to clean them up. Thankfully they were just categorization by anons who wanted said low hanging fruit edits despite said edit count being functionally useless. But yes, I removed a bunch categories. I cleaned up what was tantamount to vandalism and false information, I restored the wikis credibility by removing said vandalism and false information, and by the way 51 of those old category pages still require deletion. Which is also part of your job. The low hanging fruit edits were made productively and to remove false information and redundant over-categorization; such as bipedal and "two-legged form." I'll just have to live with that since it's apparently shameful to better the wiki if you don't do it a certain way. Not all edits are glorious. Sometimes you just clean up the puke. I go where I feel that I'm needed. Cleaning up messes made is part of that. You want me to show that I'm leadership material? The wiki needs better leadership. I stepped up and didn't pass on the burden of it. You aren't offering a direct route to power, you're trying to belittle my contributions and wasting valuable time and trying to get me too. Power hungry? This wiki is crap. It's under defended, has four active users, is for a minor show, and could be utterly crushed in a day by a persistent vandal if Movie and I weren't here. If I wanted power then I have plenty of options in terms of wikis. I'm adopting because I feel needed here. There is literally no real benefit for me to become Admin and bureaucrat on a D-List wiki... I'm here because I feel needed. I wouldn't own the wiki by adopting it. Neither would Movejunkie2009. You don't own this wiki and neither do the other admins and bureaucrats. It's community run and technically wikia can do whatever they want and even sale it to the company that owns the rights to Zoids. I've exposed your flaws in public and denounced your abilities as a leader in public. If you don't feel threatened then that's understandable. Logic? You're one man policing 915 pages and eventually possibly hundreds of edits a day and refusing help from two experienced people. You expect others to react within three certain ways and demonize them when they don't. You accuse me of ignoring people who disagree with me, yet you do the exact same thing and while denying the existence of problems. You consider the removal of vandalism to be lesser edits unbecoming of an admin. Your idea of me demonstrating leadership is for me to step down and say "I'll do it later and leave the wiki more vulnerable." You want leadership? I'm here to help the wiki and I firmly believe in restraints upon power and would willingly demote myself should I be found wanting. I'll clean up vandalism, defend and guide the wiki to the best of my ability, and leave it a better place for others. And if that isn't enough then I can demote myself or be demoted. Zane T 69 (talk) 04:10, February 27, 2019 (UTC) :You know what, I started to write a really long post, but then gave up. Here's the short version: You're threatening to ban people without warning, you're treating opinions as vandalism, you haven't read the rules page, you've lied about the number, size, and timeframe of vandal edits, and to top it off, you've banned IP ranges of helpful contributions. Throwing shade at me like I'm some dictator is ridiculous, I was playing the devil's advocate to see how you'd act, and you've done nothing but personal attacks since then. You could have easily asked "how many contributions do I need to make to become an admin" - and I would have said something like "4". You had an easy ladder there, I wrote it deliberately to trigger a reaction, but I wasn't going to make it insurmountable, it would have been a low number that's an easy hurdle. The fact is, you failed the litmus test again. You can't see past someone who disagrees with you. You aren't willing to show restraint, not even slightly. I think there's already more than enough for you to "willingly demote myself should I be found wanting." - but I imagine you'll never actually admit to that. Sylvanelite (talk) 12:52, February 27, 2019 (UTC) ::Now the adoption is completed. Rather than accusing us of trying to usurp power over the wiki you should assume good faith as it is an old Wikipedia guideline. We didn't do anything bad to you, nor did we intend to personally attack you. We also have never threatened to ban users without warning, we just want a fair enforcement of the rules and regularly active admins. One of the most important virtues an admin should fulfil is willingness to collaborate with other people. We are here for free and are spending a lot of time to build a great community. We don't get paid for anything and in particular don't own anything even if we have founded a wiki. You should rather try to cooperate with us. Moviejunkie2009 (talk) 19:50, February 27, 2019 (UTC)